Car Collector Chronicles - THE FORUM

IMO these are all valid concerns.  However, there are valid reasons for this silly rules.

1.  Over time ZDDP fouls catalytic converters.  However using oil designed for diesel engines solves the ZDDP problem.

2.  Ethenol added to fuel as an oxegenate replaces the highly polluting MTBE that was used up to a few years ago.  Both reduce Nitrous Oxides and Carbon Monoxide.  You can still add lead additives.  I've me nobody who has experienced fuel system problems using E10.  E15 is only certified for vehicles 2007 and newer and the oil companies have no mandate to offer it for sale.  E85 is only good for flex fuel vehicles.

3.  I think the internal combustion engine is here for long after we've left the earth.  Certainly there will be something in the future but who knows what it is.

I think the future is darn good for antique and collectable cars and trucks.  It may take some consideration and additional cost to use them in the future but I think the aftermarket will continue to support them with new materials for old cars.  Certainly by the time a car is 30 to 40 years old the fuel lines probably should be replaced along with fuel pumps and carb gaskets that will make the old engines totally compatible with new fuels.  In the case of ZDDP I understand it critically important for flat tappet configurations to prevent premature cam wear.  I'll bet we'll see, if we haven't already, additives on the shelf.  In the meantime diesel oils have it.

Stabil is very important now with the new fuels as the ethenol attracts and holds moisture.  It's also corrosive to aluminum and I'm sure other metals.  But, I think 10% is the upper limit for older cars.

Steve

I had no idea that E15 is common there or anywhere.  Per the news/EPA E15 is only approved for 2007 and later models.

Yes indeed the E10 does cause carb boilover problems.  I experienced it first hand on my 82 Cougar.  It did not have the problem at sea level.  I live at 2,300 feet and I had the problem winter or summer.  I finally made a carb base plate out of a poly cutting board and it reduced the problem except in the hottest days over 110*F.

Here in California the maximum ethenol allowed it 10%.  Typically the mix is between 5 and 8%.

In the stock configuration with the 200 six and 1946 Holley carb the only thing between the manifold and the carb was a 1/4" gasket.  The poly cutting board insulates as well as a phenolic spacer and is 3/8" thick which helped a lot.

I could not find a phenolic material in the area.

I did perform a very scientific test....I held the poly cutting board against the fully hot exhaust manifold,  when it did not melt I cut a piece in the same shape as the factory gasket.

Dave,

I never had a vapor lock problem but the fuel bowl would dribble fuel in to the carb throat after about 2 minutes after shutting off the engine.  My understanding is that the boiling temperature of gasoline was reduced a lot with the addition of ethanol.  So, I needed to isolate the carb from the heat.  I tried a heat shield and that didn't work.  I tried adjusting the timing both retarding and advancing and that didn't help.  The only solution left was to install a phenolic spacer between the intake manifold and the carb.  I could not find any phenolic material so I tried the plastic cutting board material.  That worked for the most part reducing to problem to only the hottest days.

As I'm sure you know there's a fine balance between the fuel temperature and not having enough fuel temperature.  Fuel does not atomize when cold so with the inline six the exhaust manifold is right below the intake manifold. The problem is these engines were designed before fuel oxygenation was thought of, thus the problem.  Oxygenated fuel is great for computer controlled managed engines with fuel injection.  It doesn't work so well with some carburated engines.  I would imagine that V engines would have a lessor problem with fuel boiling but may have more problems with vapor lock.  Quite a few MOPAR products came from the factory with heat shields under the carberators so they obviously had a heat problem long before ethenol in gasoline. 

Steve

That sounds like classic vapor lock to me. I swear it's the fuel today. The car companies would never have got away with delivering new cars that did this.

You have to wonder why Jay Leno puts modern engines in his classic cars. This is why.

At least Jay Leno admits to having more money than sense. Ha Ha.  Did you know that he's never sold a car?

I do stand corrected on my E15 in WI remark.  I was dead wrong on that score.  It is only E10 that is now being forced down our tank spouts!

I too hope, for your sake, that repairs made use of ethanol compatible parts. It is a definite problem keeping our old rides up to date with the inevitable changes in technology.

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